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T580, Linux, Fingerprint reader and NFC.

Q: T580, Linux, Fingerprint reader and NFC.

edited typo in title - mod (850-580)

I've shortlisted the T580 for a purchase, just wanted to ask what Lenovo's attitude to linux installs is. ThinkPads are well supported in Linux but how does that reflect in warranty provision, service etc? (obviosuly, service would not be expected for a custom installed OS like Linux).

I just wonder whether any issues may receive a "Oh, you installed Linux... tut tut... that is the problem." regardless of what issue one might have.

I've read that the fingerprint reader does not work in Linux. Is this still true ? If so, does that affect the NFC ? I ask because I noticed you can't select NFC without the fingerprint reader when configuring the system. I suspect that's because the NFC is provided by the fingerprint reader?

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RELEVANCY SCORE 200
Preferred Solution: T580, Linux, Fingerprint reader and NFC.

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RELEVANCY SCORE 81.6

Hi,I was wondering, whether there are actually some Lenovo guys around, or at least people who can get in touch with them. Many people have been trying to get the new fingerprint reader (by Validity / Synaptic) to run under Linux. However it seems, that there simply is no driver around.I'm talking about the fancy new fingerprint reader found in the current Thinkpad generation (Yoga X1, X1 Carbon, X260, X460, T460s, T460p).The linux community already tried to develop some driver, however it seems, that the traffic is encrypted. The only, however very tiresome possibility would probably be to port the Windows driver... See https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94536 for infos.However in the recent years Lenovo did quite some good work for Linux support, thus I was wondering, whether it would be possible for this to continue. Greetings,grb19

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RELEVANCY SCORE 80.4

Please refer to how to set up a fingerprint reader under Linux (Ubuntu 16.04.3 LTS).Fingerprint recognition software does not find a finger reader.

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RELEVANCY SCORE 78.8

I've been eyeing this laptop for a while, and was disappointed to hear that things that I have seen work out of the box for years with Linux are broken on this laptop. Namely the touchpad. This only seems to be the case on the 15in model. The 13in is reported to work fine. It's unfortunate the Lenovo fails to realize that people who spend 2k on a laptop tend to be computer enthusiasts, many of whom run Linux.  I can amost guarentee the amount of RMAs they are going to get from this are going to cost more than the few hours it would take 1 or 2 developers to write a touchpad driver for Linux. This is the only convertable on the market with a good GPU so I might still get it and try to either write a driver or get it working through some other means. Has anyone else had any luck with the touchpad or the fingerprint reader on Linux?

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RELEVANCY SCORE 69.2

I have a T460s on a fresh install of Win10. I just bought an external USB fingerprint reader https://www.amazon.com/Fingerprint-PQI-Matching-Biometric-Security/dp/B06XG4MHFJ/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&....My hope was that when my laptop was docked (on a ThinkPad Pro dock), I could plug it into a USB port on my external keyboard and login using it. For the time being, I'm just trying to get it working with the laptop undocked (i.e. forget about external keyboards, USB hubs etc.). Starting from scratch (i.e. fingerprints cleared in both Windows and the BIOS, and the external USB NOT plugged in), I setup the internal fingerprint reader, add prints, and am able login with no problem. When I plug in the external reader, drivers install just fine.  I enrolled a different finger, and was able to login just fine. However, when I unplug the external USB reader, I am never able to get the internal reader working again.  With the external unplugged and after a full restart, the internal will still not let me log in: the fingerprint option doesn?t even show up at the Windows login screen. The only way I can get the internal working again is by plugging the external in again (so that it appears in Device Manager), uninstalling both fingerprint devices (just uninstalling the external USB does not work), restarting the computer, and reenrolling my fingerprint using the internal. I know there is an option in the BIOS to just use the internal re... Read more

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RELEVANCY SCORE 66.8

Hi,I have a Thinkpad P50 equiped with a fingerprint reader.Worked perfectly well for months, but suddently stopped working.I verified/updated drivers, but this was not the problem.I then had the bad idea of changing the BIOS security option to enable the pre-POST fingerprint option.Now I end-up with a system that keeps rebooting forever preventing me to access the BIOS configuration.(I guess that after pressing F1 for entering BIOS, it expects me to scan my finger, but doesn't find the reader, so reboots again and again.)Please HELPThank you!!

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RELEVANCY SCORE 64.4

I currently have T580 with pre-installed WWAN module (Fibocom L850-GL) and trying to get to work it on Linux. It works perfectly fine on Windows. So far I discovered that Windows driver uses PCIe protocol to communicate with WWAN module, but Linux is supported apparently only through USB protocol, and if PCIe is enabled, the module ignores all USB commands according to its hardware specs document (page 26) - https://www.mev-elektronik.com/files/MEV%20Elektronik%20Service/produkt-downloads/rf-microwave-wirel... Fibocom recommendation is to disable PCIe in BIOS, that is not supported by stock ThinkPad. Thus in Linux the device is only displayed as "Wireless controller: [0d40]: Intel Corporation Device 7360 (rev 01)" through lspci , and nothing on lsusb . Any suggestions how to make it work on Linux? As an alternative I'm considering getting another WWAN module, but it's quite likely it will not work due to whitelists. The only other module that is whitelisted for sure is L830-EB, that does not have global coverage and thus doesn't work in the US or China, even so it was reported that it's Linux-compatible (USB-mode only). Maybe there is a patched BIOS that has whitelists removed? Wondering if there are Linux enthusiasts who are also looking for a way of using WWAN.

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RELEVANCY SCORE 63.6

Good day,
Got my new and shiny E7470, but there is some trouble in paradise.
Is there a way to improve fingerprint reader? This thing is complete <profanity>. Half of the time it does not recognize the finger and when it recognized, it just takes too long. Updated all drivers and software to the latest, as per dell support suggestion. Still <profanity> :D My old Vostro 3350 FP reader works better in any case.
And the second question is, can the nfc read tags? Installed a couple of programs from windows store, but they do not show the tags info. When the sound is on and I place a tag on the reader, there is chime and that is all. Device manager shows, that device is active and working without problems.
NFC card should be Mifare Plus.

A:How to improve fingerprint reader and can the nfc reader read tags? e7470

Received my E7470 few days ago same exact problem. Go to Dell Support website download and reinstall the Chipset Drivers 10.1.1.9 ,A01
Seems there is problem after updating the ControlVault driver. This fixed my issue.

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RELEVANCY SCORE 58.8

I also reintalled and update the software from the website. And I have check the status of fingerprint reader in BIOS.  Thanks,

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RELEVANCY SCORE 56.4

hello!

i need some help with a fingerrint reader!

i have a HP Compaq NC4400 laptop and it has one built in, but no software for it so any software would do i think seen as i have the hardware! basically i just think its a cool feature and want to use it for things!

anyway idea how ill get it to be used??!

Windows XP SP2 x32 <<<<----- my specs

A:Fingerprint Reader!!

check your control panel for the fingerprint reader setup. also you can go to hp and download the drivers if for some reason it was uninstalleld.

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RELEVANCY SCORE 56.4

I finally decided to give up the battle of Windows 10 on my T61.  I re-installed Windows 7.  It kinda fits in better with the olde iron.  It seems to be a little quicker.  There's just one problem,  When I installed the Lenovo fingerprint software and tried to set it up, I found that there was no fingerprint sensor driver in Device Manager.  I haven't been able to find it.  Where can I find it?





T400,, 2.53ghz T9500,8gb ram Windows 7 Home PremiumT61,15.4 T7300, 2gb RAM, Windows 7 Home Premium14.1 T23, type 2647 9LU, 1.13 PIII, 1gb, XP Pro

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RELEVANCY SCORE 56.4

I have a dell usb fingerprint reader that worked on Windows Vista Ultimate 64bit and won't work on Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit. In vista I installed Dell Embassy Suit and it took care of everything for me. Of course vista didn't install its own driver to it. The minute I plugged in the fingerprint reader to Windows 7 it installed a driver. However this driver must not be any good because Windows 7 does not recognize it as a fingerprint reader when I try to enable its use to log onto Windows. Dell Embassy Suit can use the reader, but for some reason when I try to store fingerprints it will give me an error. Sometimes when I log onto Windows it will ask me to slide my fingerprint. When I do this it just asks for my user name and password directly after I swipe my finger. Its not super important, but I would like to get it working. Thanks for any help in advanced! -Kevin

A:Fingerprint Reader

Try updating from here.

Drivers & Downloads

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RELEVANCY SCORE 56.4

I have a new laptop with Vista and a fingerprint reader. How do you set it to AUTOMATICALLY go to accepting your fingerprint as a login, withOUT having to click through 2 login screens first? And can you set it to ONLY accept a fingerprint as a login, without giving an option for entering a username/password? Thanks a bunch!

A:Using Fingerprint Reader

Depends on the make and model of the system and the software that comes bundled with the fingerprint reader. That should be available with the documentation that came with your system.

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RELEVANCY SCORE 56.4

Does anyone know of a a fingerprint reader that is compatible with vista 64 bit? I currently have two readers, none of which will work.

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RELEVANCY SCORE 56.4

Hi,

I have a Lenovo X1 Carbon (2012 version) with a fingerprint reader. When I want to install the lenovo driver I have a message that said the Windows Biometric Framework need to be activate. I go into gpedit.msc and active the service, reboot the computer but still the error...

I check in the bios, no error..

Thanks in advance

A:Fingerprint Reader ?

Try looking at services and make sure that service is running. I would thing it should be set to automatic start.

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RELEVANCY SCORE 56.4

I have a Latitude E6520 that is running on Windows 7 64 bit. I have the drivers installed, but when I try to enroll my finger, I get an error saying Capture Failed The Biometric Unit is not in the correct state to perform the specified operation Do you want to try again to enroll this finger. I tried multiple times to no avail. Any suggestions?

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RELEVANCY SCORE 56.4

Hi, I got a laptop with DigitalPersona software for the fingerprint reader. Now it works great with logging in and stuff. But it gives me problems with firefox in general. Also when I want to use it to log into facebook, I would try set it up, but it would always select the wrong username fields, and doesnt recognise the password field. HELP!! If you go to the facebook login, you will notice there is the username and password aread at the top, and the fields for becoming a member at the bottom.. IT ALWAYS SELECTS THE BOTTOM FIELDS, so its a bit weird. Please help!

A:Help with fingerprint reader

With Facebook, you have to be a bit creative to add its login to DigitalPersona fingerprint system. You have to do this only once, afterwards you can then use your fingerprint to login.

First, leave email and password fields empty and click Login.
New window opens telling about incorrect login credentials.
On this page you can setup fingerprint login normally.

Kari

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RELEVANCY SCORE 56.4

Hi not sure if it goes under here but here it goes

I'm looking for another thinkpad. I chose the E430 and here are the specs.
Model Highlights
Part number: 3254A18
Processor
3rd generation Intel Core i7-3612QM Processor( 2.10GHz 1600MHz 6MB)
Operating system
Windows 7 Home Premium 64
System graphics
NVIDIA GeForce GT630 2GB
Total memory
4.0GB PC3-12800 DDR3 SDRAM 1600 MHz (I'm gonna upgrade to 8GB)
Display type
14.0" HD VibrantView 1366x768
Hard drive device
1TB 5400 rpm
Network card
Intel Centrino Wireless N-2230
Optical device
DVD Recordable (Dual Layer)
Warranty
One year parts and labour (system battery: one year)
Battery
6 Cell Lithium-Ion.

There is no fingerprint reader. I can't decide if I should get one or not. I have prevoiusly used a laptop with a fingerprint reader but I just used it for logging on to windows.

Should I upgrade the laptop to have a fingerprint reader and what features do fingerprint readers have now?

Thanks!

A:Fingerprint Reader

Pretty much that's it. I believe you can also preprogram website passwords into it so you can login with one swipe, but the only websites that don't automatically log you in are banking sites and sites that the reader won't recognize the login screen on anyways.

I had a computer last year for school that had a finger print scanner, and it got used very little.

fingerprint scanners are far more reliable that the webcam facial recognition that some laptops have, but it's easy to just type in your password.

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RELEVANCY SCORE 56.4

Have been using Microsoft Fingerprint Reader on my desktop for some time with no problems. Just got a new laptop, running Windows XP, same as the desktop, but cannot create a fingerprint logon. When i go to any of many logon pages from different accounts, I get a message saying that this is not a logon page. Have tried everything i can think of and cannot get it to create a logon with the reader.
 

A:Fingerprint Reader

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RELEVANCY SCORE 56.4

I am thinking about buying a fingerprint reader and I would like to know the pros and the cons.

A:Fingerprint Reader Why or Why Not?

Pros:

Can be useful with the right Win 7 compatible software - log in to forms/passwords.

Cons:

Your finger can be cut off to gain access, and even with a password, your system can be compromised, so options will need to adjusted in the software.

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RELEVANCY SCORE 56.4

Hallo Lenovo Community,Ich könnte einen Tipp gebrauchen, um ggf. diesen Reader zum Leben zu erwecken am Lenovo IdeaPad 520s-14IKB mit (Linux) Debian Stretch 64-bit.  bei lsusb kommt folgende Ausgabe:$ lsusb
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub
Bus 001 Device 004: ID 8087:0a2a Intel Corp.
Bus 001 Device 003: ID 06cb:0081 Synaptics, Inc.
Bus 001 Device 002: ID 04f2:b5d9 Chicony Electronics Co., Ltd
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub   Beim Eingeben von fprintd-enroll ins Terminal kommt:
list_devices failed: No devices available  Dank an alle schon mal im Voraus. MfG b4sh





The quieter you become, the more you are able to hear....

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RELEVANCY SCORE 56.4

I am interested in one for a) Windows logon, and b) RoboForm use.

there used to be some available called Eikon UPEK, but Apple bought that company & now it seems there's only OEM vendors who sell the technology to notebook vendors.

Is anyone still making this stuff or is it and Windows Biometric Framework pretty much dead at this point?

Thanks

A:fingerprint reader for Win 8.1

they definitely must still make them because i remember just seeing a few at fry's electronics the other day. i believe the brand started with a v.

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RELEVANCY SCORE 56.4

Hi Everyone, I have got my new probook last week and I am continuously facing this fingerprint reader issue, Whenever I try to enroll my fingerprint, it say "fingerprint reader is not connected"  .. I have tried different fingerprint drivers from hp official website but none of them worked..   Does anyone knows the exact solution? 

A:Fingerprint Reader

@Usman_Ahmad? You can use the Fingerprint Driver listed for your notebook at your Driver pages:Synaptics (Validity) Fingerprint Sensor Driver Driver:sp74167 Synaptics-Validity Driver V4.5.321.0A Commentary Windows 10 provides its own "fingerprint logon" software program set.  You do not need any other security software installed to use the Windows 10 logon.  Windows 10 (fingerprint) logon does not work with websites; Windows logon will get you into the computer by letting you use a fingerprint to log into your account. Windows 10 requires that you assign a PIN number in PC Settings > Sign-in Options to enable the fingerprint scanner.  Why?  Microsoft has added this additional security to allow access to the fingerprint scanner / software.  It is best if you write down / remember the PIN -- you will need it if the fingerprint software fails - and this does happen.  Nice thing about PIN -- it is tied to the hardware; no one can use it to remotely log into your computer.  NOTE:  You still need a Windows Password assigned to your account (ie., your local password or your Microsoft password used for password logins) -- PIN and password are not related.  PIN allows you access to fingerprint and perhaps other login methods (Hello, Picture). Additional Local Admin AccountAdditionally, it might be a good idea to add an additional local account that has administrative privileges.  If you... Read more

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RELEVANCY SCORE 56.4

Guys - I have a 4th gen X1 (type 20FB) and downloaded the synaptics driver. But after installation, it seems to install the drivers but then disappears. It doesn't prompt me for setting up or recording my fingerprints. Is there a separate utility I have to use for that?Thanks

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RELEVANCY SCORE 56.4

After browsing threads/knowledge base here and googling, I am utterly confused.  Iwas looking forward to trying fingerprint recognition for the first time on my brand-new P50 and have no idea how to make it work or, after looking online, whether iteven works at all anymore.  No software from Synaptics or Lenovo (nothing underBiometrics in Device Manager).  Tried to install Synaptics FP driver and no result.Is this broken or just mis-leading advertising--not having an advertised functionality?Hopefully, I'm just being stupid and missing something--I'd be happy to have anyonehere prove that to be the case, lol! Thanks, PeterMadison,  Wisconsin  

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RELEVANCY SCORE 56.4

Hello, i just bought an HP Pavilion DV7-4040ed with an buildin fingerprint reader. I am able to secure websites and login screen with the fingerprint reader. But now im wondering how to secure a map with the fingerprint reader. So that when i double click the map on my desktop it will ask for my fingerprint

Thanks in advance
Devilxown

A:Fingerprint reader

I realize this is not answering your question.... but I suggest you do some reading on the pros & cons of fingerprint readers.






Quote:
If somebody steals your fingerprints, you're pretty much out of luck for the rest of your life. You wouldn't be able to use your prints as a form of identification until you were absolutely sure all copies had been destroyed. There's no way to get new prints.


I have 3 HP laptops here with fingerprint readers. I consider them part of HP's bloatware & as such are never used.

HowStuffWorks "How Fingerprint Scanners Work"

Case studies reveal the pros and cons of biometrics

FAQ on Fingerprint Scanner, different types of fingerprint sensors/readers, Capacitive Sensors, Optical Sensors, Thermal Sensors, Pressure Sensors, RF Sensors, Ultrasonic Sensors, Static Fingerprint Reader/Sensor, Swipe Fingerprint Reader/Sensor

Fingerprint Reader Why or Why Not?

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RELEVANCY SCORE 56.4

I just purchased my lenovo 720 yoga with fingerprint reader.  It uses the reader to log me into Windows,  Previously on my last HP, there was software installed that remembered my passwords every time i went to a website. when I would get to a website to log into, such as facebook, it would ask  me to swipe my finger and then log me in.   I have to belive that there is something similar for this laptop but I can't find any solutions.  Can someone help?  Thanks!

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RELEVANCY SCORE 56.4
RELEVANCY SCORE 56.4

I WANT TO ACTIVATE MY FINGER PRINT READER BUT WHEN I INSTALLED EVERYTHING THEN ITS SHOWING"THE FINGER PRINT READER IS NOT CONNECTED , CONNECT THE READER.WHAT CAN I DO?

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RELEVANCY SCORE 55.6

I have a Lenovo W530 with fingerprint reader. In the past it would both turn the computer on then log on and wake the computer from standby or sleep. About 4 weeks ago I upgraded from Windows 10 to Windows 10 Creator and the fingerprint reader will now wake my computer from sleep but requires the Windows password to be typed in. When turning the computer on the reader still works. Has anyone heard of this and a solution?
 

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RELEVANCY SCORE 55.6

Hi, so yesterday my laptop suffered a critical service failure and got the blue screen of death.  While I was able to fix this by resetting my pc, many apps, including the one that controls the fingerprint reader is no longer available to me.  My question is this;  Is there a way to reinstall and reactivate the print reader, and if so how, or is this not possible?  Any help you can provide will be greatly appreciated. Thank you

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RELEVANCY SCORE 55.6

Simple pass was working fine last night.  Tried using it just now and it won't even light up.  When I try to launch from the start menu it keeps saying "fingerprint reader not detected."  Is there dust/debris in there or something?  I don't know what's up with this thing.  Do I need to reinstall or update something?  I hope this isn't the first of many problems to come....or I'm going to pull my hair out!!!!!!!!  Thanks for all the help!!!!













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A:"Fingerprint reader not detected." Help!

Nope, that is good...Can you tell me, if this issue has happen after powering it up today or the system has waken up from Sleep/hibernation mode...And for now, I would suggest uninstalling and reinstalling HP Simplepass software...To reinstall simplepass, it is there in recovery manager under Software...

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RELEVANCY SCORE 55.6

Hello,          My fingerprint reader doesnt seem to be working, i have tried installing the latest drivers viz. validity sensor driver 4.5.133.0 and also hp client support. But still neither is it showing in the device manager nor is there any lead. Please helpThanking in anticipation

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RELEVANCY SCORE 55.6

Just bought this after a previous post and thought you guys might like a review.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7093058&type=product&id=1109233550650

This product is more for fun than actual security. You can use this for boot but you can still type in the password making it nothing more than a convience to log in. The only other thing that it does is remember login and password information. If I where to guess it creates a file of these passwords actually making your system a little less secure. However, saying you have a fingerprint scanner is cool in an odd sort of way.
 

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RELEVANCY SCORE 55.6

I've been using Windows 7 Ultimate for a few years now with AuthenTec Protector Suite 2012 installed and a TrueMe fingerprint reading device.

The Protector Suite software allowed me to login to windows using a fingerprint and to use fingerprints to open password protected files as well as entering passwords into web screens. The software maintained a database, which allowed any entry of a password to be stored against a fingerprint.

Consequently, I've become used to simply swiping the fingerprint reader to enter all my passwords. Brilliant!

Along comes Windows 10 and I can't get Protector Suite 2012 to install. It gives the error "To use this product, Windows Biometric Framework must be enabled.". I can successfully setup Windows 10 Hello to use the fingerprint reader to login to Windows 10, but this is a small fraction of the potential of using fingerprints.

Anyone any idea on how to enable Windows Biometric Framework. By the way I've already tried using gpedit.msc to Enable "Allow the use of biometrics" but this doesn't appear to make the slightest bit of difference.

Alternatively, is there any Windows 10 compatible software out there that will do more than simply allow me to use my fingerprint reader to login. I would like to use it to enter passwords for protected files and web page inputs.

I performed a clean, fresh install of Windows 10 Pro alongside my existing Windows 7 Ultimate, so I can dual boot. Until I get ALL the functionality I ... Read more

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RELEVANCY SCORE 55.6

how can I use my laptop fingerprint reader it's not working 

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RELEVANCY SCORE 55.6

i had tried lot of drivers by downloading from the internet.but nothing happened.please help me .how can i set up the fingerprint reader?The reader still not set uped,help me soon

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RELEVANCY SCORE 55.6

I have a problem on my hp probook 450 G2 notebook pc and  operating system is windows 8.1 64bit.Please be good enough to help me.I love this technology but i don't no how to use it.several times i been trying. Please Help

A:The Fingerprint reader is not connected

now it is oksolved

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RELEVANCY SCORE 55.6

Upon login, it says to connect a fingerprint reader. In Control Panel > Biometric, it says the device cannot be found and to insert it or install drivers. Worked fine for many years until a few days ago after installing a bunch of Windows updates. No idea what to try. Don't seem able to find installable drivers.

A:Fingerprint reader not connected

Geeezus... I'm an IT guy so I kinda gotta know what I'm doing but this was a mess. I uninstalled and reinstalled a bunch of software, mostly Dell, changed a bunch of settings in the Embassy Security Center and BIOS. Finally got it to work but unfortunately I have no easy steps for future searchers to follow cause I changed a lot and don't really know what did it.  One thing that just happened was in the Device Manager, I uninstalled a device that simply wouldn't start, called "Dell ControlVault w/ Fingerprint Swipe Sensor" which kept erroring with "This device cannot start (Code 10)", which forced Windows to find and use another driver that works. New name of the device is "Control Vault w/ Fingerprint Swipe Sensor", loosing the Dell brand name and instead identifying itself with Broadcom. Perhaps that did, I'm not sure. All I know is that it finally works now.

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RELEVANCY SCORE 55.6

Tried compatibility mode, no luck. The biggest issue is the driver, if I had the proper driver for the reader I am sure it would work.

I purchased one of these and I cannot get the software to work with vista/windows 7 x64 operating system. It came with xp digitalpersona software. I looked and could not find drivers that worked with x64. I did get digitalpersona personal 4.0 it never had the drivers to work. Can anyone help.

nash211
 

A:Microsoft fingerprint reader

hi what about trying compatibility mode
 

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RELEVANCY SCORE 55.6

Hello dear member,I,m a happy owner of HP Probook 4530s. But from past 4 days my Nightmare starts. I Accidently restore my bios to default factory reset. After that HP protect tools could not detect my fingerprint reader. I had tried every thing. i had searched this forum. Try every thing to make it works Properly but the problem still exists. nd one more thing accidently i had formatted the hp recovery partition . Now Please help me i,m so much disturb because of it now

A:Plz Help, Fingerprint reader not detected

I have a few questions, if you don't mind... 1) What is your OS? 2) do you still see a light from the finger print reader? 3) where you able to create a RCD before you "accidentally" formatted your partition? 4) Can you tell us what you already tried doing so we won't ask you to do those things again?





~reikableu~...KUDO's to me and if this resolves the issue, please tag this as "AcceptedSolution"~I MAYBE working for HP Consumer Notebook Support but any opinion stated are not at anyways connected to those of HP.~

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